tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post7443631621747283486..comments2024-02-29T12:30:32.562-08:00Comments on War of 1812 Wargaming Blog: American Cavalry Uniforms and Models for the Battle of Bladensburg 1814Chuck Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-54598306883746233812021-06-23T06:17:30.564-07:002021-06-23T06:17:30.564-07:00Its like you read my mind! You appear to know a lo...Its like you read my mind! You appear to know a lot about this, like you wrote the book in it or something. I think that you could do with a few pics to drive the message home a bit, but instead of that, this is wonderful blog. <b><a href="https://gopherrecords.com/record-types/service-records/" rel="nofollow">national archives military records</a></b>StuartFaheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01936496379040251785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-19319852388278052452017-06-04T04:22:41.988-07:002017-06-04T04:22:41.988-07:00Thanks for the information Ed. I will try and find...Thanks for the information Ed. I will try and find that title as well. Certainly what you have said makes sense, though there were militia from far afield at Bladensburg as well. I will cross reference with the Maryland Militia Cavalry web page to look for those names. <br />From a gaming perspective at least, the numbers and likely uniforms still make sense, though their organization seems contradictory. Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-19763326919399446592017-06-04T04:16:37.046-07:002017-06-04T04:16:37.046-07:00Glad you find it useful! I have been creating what...Glad you find it useful! I have been creating what I wish I had when I started out. Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-72370604993342102942017-06-02T11:54:23.799-07:002017-06-02T11:54:23.799-07:00One book that has the OOB for both sides is "...One book that has the OOB for both sides is "The Battle for Baltimore" by Joseph Whitehorne. Uses official sources. Nafziger added the 68th to the American line at Bladensburg only because of the so called captured flag. Since the 68th was from the Williamsburg area, you'd be hard pressed to believe they traveled all the way to Washington to be in a battle. Winder had a hard enough time getting troops from Alexandria to assist him! Besides that, I have the AAR for Bladensburg, by Ross, the offical Washington Inquiry on Winders defeat, and the AARs for North Point, written by Brooke and Stricker. The 3rd Brigade, from Baltimore City, for North Point was augmented by several companies from PA and western MD.<br />Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918460847624495230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-91152487385809046592017-05-31T19:27:32.717-07:002017-05-31T19:27:32.717-07:00Thanks Ed,
I will check it out. I have found that ...Thanks Ed,<br />I will check it out. I have found that information on these two battles to be contradictory. Certainly the historian at Fort McHenry is a great source. Donald Graves and Richard Feltoe wrote in great detail about the campaigns in Canada, I have read several books on Bladensburg and North Point but none of them have been as specific. Those sources I have read have been as I said, contradictory. I have only seen the units you stated being at North Point in the Osprey campaign book. Do you have another source which states that?Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-21055347352247551012017-05-31T19:00:09.089-07:002017-05-31T19:00:09.089-07:00BTW at the bottom of the following page is a short...BTW at the bottom of the following page is a short article on the number of British prisoners captured on the 14th during the American attack on the rear-guard.<br />https://maryland1812.wordpress.com/category/prisoners-of-war/Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918460847624495230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-56655949747688101642017-05-31T11:01:09.821-07:002017-05-31T11:01:09.821-07:00Hi Chuck,
The Harford Light Dragoons were part of ...Hi Chuck,<br />The Harford Light Dragoons were part of the 7th Cavalry District which was Harford and Cecil Counties of Maryland. The 1st Brigade of MD, also from Harford & Cecil Counties, was at Baltimore as part of the defense of the city in Sept 1814. The MD 7th was attached to the 1st Brigade. When the British retreated, General Smith pushed Winder's VA brigade forward as well as all cavalry, US and Militia. In his AAR, Smith mentions both the commander of the 7th MD cavalry, Streett, and the commander of the Harford Dragoons, a Capt William Lee, and the service performed by their units. In Glieg's two narratives, there is definitely a skirmish, to the point of calling back some artillery to assist the rear guard. And there were British prisoners taken during this action. I've been emailing back and forth with Scott Sheads, former historian for Fort McHenry and am awaiting a response from him regarding this action. <br />Regarding the cavalry at Bladensburg, besides US regulars, there was militia cavalry from MD 1st, 2nd and 5th Cavalry Districts as well as three units from DC. The MD 1st and 2nd Cavalry districts are Washington/Frederick and Montgomery/Prince Georges Counties, respectively. The 5th Cavalry District was Baltimore.<br />Cheers<br />Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918460847624495230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-81791985136290174222017-05-30T20:07:38.177-07:002017-05-30T20:07:38.177-07:00Hi Ed,
I don't recall reading anything about t...Hi Ed,<br />I don't recall reading anything about the other two captured standards, but generally the British were pretty meticulous about records. I'm not saying there couldn't be an error, in where they captured that standard, it just seems more likely that it was captured at Bladensburg. The British marched off from North Point undefeated. It seems unlikely militia cavalrymen would have charged the British with any gusto, though perhaps they may have exchanged shots. <br />It certainly would sound more heroic for the Americans to have lost it in changing in against the British, making it sound as if the British were in full retreat at North Point, but they were not. They were to burn and cause havoc not to occupy. Certainly they did not take Fort McHenry of Baltimore, but neither was their campaign entirely unsuccessful (unlike New Orleans which was a disaster). <br />The only source I could find which claim the militia cavalry at Bladensburg were the ones you stated is the Osprey campaign book which is full of errors in numbers and dispositions which seem to contradict other sources. Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-30470634491274410262017-05-30T19:27:31.762-07:002017-05-30T19:27:31.762-07:00Unfortunately, none of the colours supposedly capt...Unfortunately, none of the colours supposedly captured by the British at Bladensburg were actually captured there. For instance the 68th colour was captured at the battle of Hampton in June 1813 by the Royal Marines and not the 85th. And it is far more likely that the Harford Dragoon flag was captured in a skirmish near North Point on Sept 14th. The Harford Dragoons were part of the 7th Cavalry District and were not at Bladensburg but they were at Baltimore and seemed to have participated in the pursuit of the British after their retreat from the city. There was a skirmish on the afternoon of the 14th where cavalry attacked the British Rear guard. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918460847624495230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-61201257208400667732017-01-20T16:08:07.876-08:002017-01-20T16:08:07.876-08:00If it was indeed just Harford County Light Dragoon...If it was indeed just Harford County Light Dragoons from Maryland they had 3 or 4 Companies that were not specified. Here is their organization. Since the "1st Harford County Light Dragoons" standard was captured by the British it makes more sense than the Osprey units. Either way, American districts seemed to have Light Dragoons, Dragoons, Hussars, Chasseurs in equal quantities. (Really they would all have been light Dragoons for gaming purposes). "Hussars" seemed to have nicer uniforms at least. <br /><br />http://mdld.kineticintel.com/index.php/interpretations-and-history/maryland-light-dragoonsChuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-66860934553499207132017-01-20T15:37:55.422-08:002017-01-20T15:37:55.422-08:00Hi Rod,
I agree about Nafziger being vague and in...Hi Rod, <br />I agree about Nafziger being vague and incorrect. I do find that the Battles that took place in the US are harder to find exact information for. <br /><br />All sources I have looked since you had asked stated that the total cavalry did not exceed 400, the number 380 was also given. If that is the case my OOB over represents them. The Virginians arrived very late to the battle and without ammunition or flints so perhaps the 100 Virginian cavalry were not included in the 380 figure? Assuming this is the case the numbers given in Wikipedia make sense. <br />Forward positions; 240 Harford County Maryland Dragoons<br /> 140 Regular Light Dragoons, plus 100 Virginian Light Dragoons which it states amalgamated with Lavalle's Regular Dragoons during the battle. The position of the 50 DC Dragoons is not listed, but they may have been so scattered that they were not even a force (which is what I remember reading). The other regulars were in the third / rear line in my OOB, not sure on my source for this either. <br /><br />Unfortunately I did not record the source I got the numbers from originally, but it too may disagree with the others. There were only two units of DC infantry present, so perhaps it makes sense that they had only a limited cavalry presence. I do remember reading that the Alexandria Dragoons were scattered on scouting and reconassaince before the battle so had limited numbers on the battlefield. Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-5335570707828862412017-01-20T08:01:28.802-08:002017-01-20T08:01:28.802-08:00Hi Chuck,
Thanks for your reply. I will check tho...Hi Chuck,<br /><br />Thanks for your reply. I will check those links. However, I have found Nafziger's figures for the War of 1812 very generic and sometimes incorrect. No disparaging intent on N, he was doing the best of what little information was available over forty years ago.<br /><br />Yes, most of the sources I have state that the militia cavalry was lumped in with the regulars for total of 300. However, there does not seem to be an accurate breakdown by district regiments. The one exception are the Virginia Dragoons that are numbered 100 by Pitch.<br /><br />300 is the number given to the Maryland district cavalry by Lossing and Quimby.<br /><br />So, more investigation is required for the D.C. cavalry.<br /><br />Thanks again, RodIronDuke596https://www.blogger.com/profile/09656299687671563620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-320126987799133132017-01-19T13:55:04.598-08:002017-01-19T13:55:04.598-08:00Hi Rod,
I had copied down the numbers a couple of ...Hi Rod,<br />I had copied down the numbers a couple of years ago, I can't remember which book, but they do match other sources. Whatever source it was, stated they were combined with the Regular Light Dragons at the Battle. I also have the book "The Darkest Day" but in a quick glance I don't see an OOB in it. <br /><br />Here are a couple that do show the numbers of DC cavalry. <br />Nafziger<br />http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/CGSC/CARL/nafziger/814UHAC.pdf<br /><br />Captain Hamish Bain listed on Wikipedia<br />https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bladensburg<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-75273237085242160532017-01-19T09:46:50.143-08:002017-01-19T09:46:50.143-08:00Hi Chuck,
Where did you get the numbers 40-50 for ...Hi Chuck,<br />Where did you get the numbers 40-50 for the D.C. Cavalry? I have started searching my refs but have not found any numbers yet.<br />Cheers,<br />RodIronDuke596https://www.blogger.com/profile/09656299687671563620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-84040849035715514762017-01-19T03:50:56.072-08:002017-01-19T03:50:56.072-08:00Outstanding information. Thank you for sharing.Outstanding information. Thank you for sharing.Old Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10414321650267966787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-84150456696432483742017-01-17T14:21:57.226-08:002017-01-17T14:21:57.226-08:00Hi Rod,
I will check out that company's miniat...Hi Rod,<br />I will check out that company's miniatures. The muskets from the plastic Perry miniatures are separate I believe, I have their hussars and dragons and they separate on both. Either way they are easily cut off their plastic or pewter models. <br /><br />Osprey titles seem to have a lot of errors. They were the only source I could find which listed the specific companies at Bladensburg, but since they are wrong about the DC cavalry present I question the rest as well. Still, at least the names of the companies give us clues about what the Maryland cavalry may have looked like. <br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Chuck Chuck Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328403041224000693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6953006782551157618.post-43838707631637415692017-01-17T07:50:40.868-08:002017-01-17T07:50:40.868-08:00Hi Chuck,
Thanks for posting your figure ideas for...Hi Chuck,<br />Thanks for posting your figure ideas for representing American militia cavalry at Bladensburg and North Point. They are most useful.<br /><br />Do the Perry plastic dragoon have carbines molded to the figure or are they separate? Re both the regular and militia light dragoons did not carry carbines.<br /><br />I just recently discovered another way of possibly replicating American militia cavalry through Trent Figures. The have British Yeomanry cavalry in Tarleton Helmets with or without carbines. So, I think I will order a few sets to see if they will fit the bill.<br /><br />BTW as you imply; Opsrey OOB for both Bladensburg and North Point are wrong. I have used Quimby, Lord, Pitch, Gleig, "Lion In the Bay", "Terror On the Chesapeake" and "The Man Who captured Washington as sources for my OOB.<br /><br />Cheers, RodIronDuke596https://www.blogger.com/profile/09656299687671563620noreply@blogger.com